<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Deep Ecology</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/</link>
	<description>Lost soul, lost road, lost words.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: wburg</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29135</link>
		<dc:creator>wburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29135</guid>
		<description>I think Joe is taking the term "shallow" a bit out of context--it's not that buying a hybrid is a bad thing, but that it's a way to extend the current paradigm (living in a distant suburb based on freeways and individual cars) instead of changing the paradgim (living closer to where you work so you don't need freeways or cars as much.)

A couple of years ago a co-worker and Prius driver asked me why I didn't own one (I drive an 18 year old wagon that gets around 20 MPG city.) He commuted every day from Elk Grove, around 20-25 miles round trip, while I commuted from the edge of East Sacramento/Midtown, around 5 miles round trip. So even with a Prius he's using twice the gas I was. These days I live even closer to work, so I walk or take light rail 3-4 times a week. So my gas use for work comes to about half a gallon a week.

Shallow ecology is necessary and important: it's the basic level, and it gets people into the idea that using up resources at a ridiculous rate isn't that great of a strategy. But changing the way we build cities means more than just changing to a more fuel-efficient car--it means building more fuel-efficient cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Joe is taking the term &#8220;shallow&#8221; a bit out of context&#8211;it&#8217;s not that buying a hybrid is a bad thing, but that it&#8217;s a way to extend the current paradigm (living in a distant suburb based on freeways and individual cars) instead of changing the paradgim (living closer to where you work so you don&#8217;t need freeways or cars as much.)</p>
<p>A couple of years ago a co-worker and Prius driver asked me why I didn&#8217;t own one (I drive an 18 year old wagon that gets around 20 MPG city.) He commuted every day from Elk Grove, around 20-25 miles round trip, while I commuted from the edge of East Sacramento/Midtown, around 5 miles round trip. So even with a Prius he&#8217;s using twice the gas I was. These days I live even closer to work, so I walk or take light rail 3-4 times a week. So my gas use for work comes to about half a gallon a week.</p>
<p>Shallow ecology is necessary and important: it&#8217;s the basic level, and it gets people into the idea that using up resources at a ridiculous rate isn&#8217;t that great of a strategy. But changing the way we build cities means more than just changing to a more fuel-efficient car&#8211;it means building more fuel-efficient cities.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uneasy Rhetoric</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29128</link>
		<dc:creator>Uneasy Rhetoric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29128</guid>
		<description>Joe, I hear ya.  We're just a three person household and we "need" two cars.  There's the daycare issue, and the working in opposite directions issue, and the fact that my job sometimes requires me to travel issue (okay, that last one is bogus because I can always use a state car).

I do transit/bike to work when I'm working in town, and I could even walk.

Still, we're a society that is still built on driving and it takes a very, very deep ecologist to overcome the challenges such a structure poses.  If we didn't have a child, we could make much better environmental choices, I guarantee.  We're getting better, but it's going to take a long time before we can work that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I hear ya.  We&#8217;re just a three person household and we &#8220;need&#8221; two cars.  There&#8217;s the daycare issue, and the working in opposite directions issue, and the fact that my job sometimes requires me to travel issue (okay, that last one is bogus because I can always use a state car).</p>
<p>I do transit/bike to work when I&#8217;m working in town, and I could even walk.</p>
<p>Still, we&#8217;re a society that is still built on driving and it takes a very, very deep ecologist to overcome the challenges such a structure poses.  If we didn&#8217;t have a child, we could make much better environmental choices, I guarantee.  We&#8217;re getting better, but it&#8217;s going to take a long time before we can work that out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe Sacramento</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29126</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Sacramento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29126</guid>
		<description>Shallow=Buying a hybrid? I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there ;)  Ok maybe buying a 45mpg hybrid is not as environmentally noble as "giving up [one's] car," but shallow? Nah. Then again, as the owner or a Prius since 2005, I am admittedly a bit biased. Unfortunately I am in no position to give up my car--unless there is an easier way to manage the diverse needs of a family of five. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shallow=Buying a hybrid? I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there <img src='http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Ok maybe buying a 45mpg hybrid is not as environmentally noble as &#8220;giving up [one's] car,&#8221; but shallow? Nah. Then again, as the owner or a Prius since 2005, I am admittedly a bit biased. Unfortunately I am in no position to give up my car&#8211;unless there is an easier way to manage the diverse needs of a family of five. <img src='http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: uneasy rhetoric</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29125</link>
		<dc:creator>uneasy rhetoric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29125</guid>
		<description>Farming on farmland? Now that's just crazy talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farming on farmland? Now that&#8217;s just crazy talk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wburg</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29124</link>
		<dc:creator>wburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29124</guid>
		<description>I notice that all of those new projects are dropping their prices: the "high $300K" Tapestri Squre units were for sale for "mid $400K" last year (and none of them sold.) 

Meanwhile, historic homes in the same neighborhood *are* selling for those kinds of prices, even though many are the same size or smaller, with similar lot densities. 

(Shallow: Buying a brand-new infill house with "green" features built on the wreckage of an old building. Deep: Buy an old house made of century-old old-growth redwood, within walking distance of your job, and take simple steps to make it even more energy efficient.)

Expensive gas is suddenly making people realize the value of living close to work--and, potentially just as important, the value of using farmland at the edge of cities for farming instead of suburbs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice that all of those new projects are dropping their prices: the &#8220;high $300K&#8221; Tapestri Squre units were for sale for &#8220;mid $400K&#8221; last year (and none of them sold.) </p>
<p>Meanwhile, historic homes in the same neighborhood *are* selling for those kinds of prices, even though many are the same size or smaller, with similar lot densities. </p>
<p>(Shallow: Buying a brand-new infill house with &#8220;green&#8221; features built on the wreckage of an old building. Deep: Buy an old house made of century-old old-growth redwood, within walking distance of your job, and take simple steps to make it even more energy efficient.)</p>
<p>Expensive gas is suddenly making people realize the value of living close to work&#8211;and, potentially just as important, the value of using farmland at the edge of cities for farming instead of suburbs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: uneasy rhetoric</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29120</link>
		<dc:creator>uneasy rhetoric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29120</guid>
		<description>And I think those homes are terrific.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I think those homes are terrific.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: uneasy rhetoric</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29119</link>
		<dc:creator>uneasy rhetoric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29119</guid>
		<description>I'm not a no-car person either (seeing as we have two), but I'm all about reducing vehicle miles traveled, which are a factor of both distance and the number of cars on the road. More people using mass transit, living closer to work, carpooling, or even ditching their car, is a good thing.

As much as it pains me to pay almost 50 bucks to fill my Saturn, higher gas prices are a good thing environmentally because you're right -- higher gas prices are making people redefine what is "comfortable."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a no-car person either (seeing as we have two), but I&#8217;m all about reducing vehicle miles traveled, which are a factor of both distance and the number of cars on the road. More people using mass transit, living closer to work, carpooling, or even ditching their car, is a good thing.</p>
<p>As much as it pains me to pay almost 50 bucks to fill my Saturn, higher gas prices are a good thing environmentally because you&#8217;re right &#8212; higher gas prices are making people redefine what is &#8220;comfortable.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2008/06/22/deep-ecology/#comment-29118</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/?p=650#comment-29118</guid>
		<description>These homes are a little smaller, but reasonably sized and much more affordable:
http://www.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?mlslid=70091235&#38;ml=3&#38;typ=7

I don't think driving is bad per se (says the guy who lives in the suburbs) - it's more distance and efficiency that's the issue.  It's better to drive a truck 3 miles than a hybrid 30. 

I'll admit to being a total cynic, but I've always believed that money is the only thing that would push most people into responsible environmental decisions.  I feel for people who genuinely can't afford $4.50 per gallon, but I actually think it's good for everyone else.  People are getting rid of fuel inefficient cars and using mass transit.  The political climate is ripe for spending money on building transit rather than roads.  None of this would have happened without gas prices increasing like they have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These homes are a little smaller, but reasonably sized and much more affordable:<br />
<a href="http://www.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?mlslid=70091235&amp;ml=3&amp;typ=7" rel="nofollow">http://www.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?mlslid=70091235&amp;ml=3&amp;typ=7</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think driving is bad per se (says the guy who lives in the suburbs) - it&#8217;s more distance and efficiency that&#8217;s the issue.  It&#8217;s better to drive a truck 3 miles than a hybrid 30. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit to being a total cynic, but I&#8217;ve always believed that money is the only thing that would push most people into responsible environmental decisions.  I feel for people who genuinely can&#8217;t afford $4.50 per gallon, but I actually think it&#8217;s good for everyone else.  People are getting rid of fuel inefficient cars and using mass transit.  The political climate is ripe for spending money on building transit rather than roads.  None of this would have happened without gas prices increasing like they have.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
