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	<title>Comments on: Urban competition</title>
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	<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/</link>
	<description>When stream of consciousness meets a waterfall.</description>
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		<title>By: Uneasy Rhetoric</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10119</link>
		<dc:creator>Uneasy Rhetoric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 04:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10119</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a good point.  I hadn&#039;t even considered the two-car scenario.  We&#039;re still a one car family and I&#039;m hoping it will stay that way (Sacramento doesn&#039;t make it easy, though).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a good point.  I hadn&#8217;t even considered the two-car scenario.  We&#8217;re still a one car family and I&#8217;m hoping it will stay that way (Sacramento doesn&#8217;t make it easy, though).</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10118</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 03:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10118</guid>
		<description>just a couple of refinements to the cost/benefit analysis:

My wife and I live in midtown and that allows us to be a one-car family rather than a two car family.  That&#039;s an entire car payment we don&#039;t have to make.  If the IRS figures a $0.35/mile reimbursement to pay for gas, depreciation, maintenance (the total cost of car ownership), that 120 mile round trip actually costs about $40/day.  Multiply that by 21 work days/month, and you get over $800/month.  Now, if you apply that to a home mortgage, because of the interest write off, it only &quot;feels like&quot; about $500 (depending on your tax situation).  You could probably spend up to about $1200 a month on a mortgage before the after-tax effect reaches $800.  The bottom line is that you&#039;re paying for the car and gas and insurance and depreciation and maintenance with after-tax dollars.  The interest on your mortgage is tax deductable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a couple of refinements to the cost/benefit analysis:</p>
<p>My wife and I live in midtown and that allows us to be a one-car family rather than a two car family.  That&#8217;s an entire car payment we don&#8217;t have to make.  If the IRS figures a $0.35/mile reimbursement to pay for gas, depreciation, maintenance (the total cost of car ownership), that 120 mile round trip actually costs about $40/day.  Multiply that by 21 work days/month, and you get over $800/month.  Now, if you apply that to a home mortgage, because of the interest write off, it only &#8220;feels like&#8221; about $500 (depending on your tax situation).  You could probably spend up to about $1200 a month on a mortgage before the after-tax effect reaches $800.  The bottom line is that you&#8217;re paying for the car and gas and insurance and depreciation and maintenance with after-tax dollars.  The interest on your mortgage is tax deductable.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10116</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 21:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10116</guid>
		<description>I agree.  I think the key is to make urban living more attractive to what people appreciate about urban living.  Downtown was a ghost town after 5pm for years.  With many of the apartments and condos going up and the shopping and entertainment that come with it more people will want to live in the urban areas.  I am excited to see what is happening in Sac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  I think the key is to make urban living more attractive to what people appreciate about urban living.  Downtown was a ghost town after 5pm for years.  With many of the apartments and condos going up and the shopping and entertainment that come with it more people will want to live in the urban areas.  I am excited to see what is happening in Sac.</p>
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		<title>By: John (Uneasy Rhetoric)</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10115</link>
		<dc:creator>John (Uneasy Rhetoric)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 21:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10115</guid>
		<description>Matt -- I completely agree.  But I want to find ways to encourage more people to want to live in an urban environment.  Otherwise, sprawl continues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt &#8212; I completely agree.  But I want to find ways to encourage more people to want to live in an urban environment.  Otherwise, sprawl continues.</p>
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		<title>By: John (Uneasy Rhetoric)</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10114</link>
		<dc:creator>John (Uneasy Rhetoric)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 20:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10114</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d never expect urban living to compete only on a cost-basis with suburban development, but I think the premium Friedman alludes to -- that people would be willing to pay to live downtown -- is still too high.

To some extent, the presence of high-profile condo developments like the highrises will close that gap.  When people see the well-to-do forgoing the mansion lifestyle for the urban lifestyle, they&#039;ll start to factor that into their own housing decisions.

Certainly, as I suggested, fuel prices are doing a lot to close that gap as well.

The new developments should also help to turn the phrase &quot;urban experience&quot; from a negative one to a positive one.  There are still too many people who hear that phrase and think of drug deals in dark alleys, scary transients, bad schools, and grime.

But bringing the actual price of units down a bit can&#039;t hurt either.  I&#039;m less concerned about the per-square-foot measure than about the abosulte price, since that&#039;s how we determine affordability.

Ultimately, it is about attitude.  Given the choice between a 3,000 square foot home in the &#039;burbs and a 1,500 square foot home in the city, with the same pricetag and &lt;em&gt;certis paribus,&lt;/em&gt; I&#039;d go for the city.  

But I&#039;m wierd that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d never expect urban living to compete only on a cost-basis with suburban development, but I think the premium Friedman alludes to &#8212; that people would be willing to pay to live downtown &#8212; is still too high.</p>
<p>To some extent, the presence of high-profile condo developments like the highrises will close that gap.  When people see the well-to-do forgoing the mansion lifestyle for the urban lifestyle, they&#8217;ll start to factor that into their own housing decisions.</p>
<p>Certainly, as I suggested, fuel prices are doing a lot to close that gap as well.</p>
<p>The new developments should also help to turn the phrase &#8220;urban experience&#8221; from a negative one to a positive one.  There are still too many people who hear that phrase and think of drug deals in dark alleys, scary transients, bad schools, and grime.</p>
<p>But bringing the actual price of units down a bit can&#8217;t hurt either.  I&#8217;m less concerned about the per-square-foot measure than about the abosulte price, since that&#8217;s how we determine affordability.</p>
<p>Ultimately, it is about attitude.  Given the choice between a 3,000 square foot home in the &#8216;burbs and a 1,500 square foot home in the city, with the same pricetag and <em>certis paribus,</em> I&#8217;d go for the city.  </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m wierd that way.</p>
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		<title>By: LivingInUrbanSac</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10113</link>
		<dc:creator>LivingInUrbanSac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 20:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10113</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; If you never spend any time in your yard, do you really need one?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nope, that&#039;s why I am happy as hell that we don&#039;t have one anymore. I hated doing yeard work and we were never out there.

&lt;blockquote&gt; If you never spend any time in your yard, do you really need one?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nope, that&#039;s why I am happy as hell that we don&#039;t have one anymore. I hataed doing yeard work and we were never out there.

Unfortunately, I can&#039;t agree that mid-rise will complete with suburban living at this point, or in the near future.  You can still get a house in Natomas for around $225-$250 a square foot; midrises are still going to go for around $350-$400

Like Matt said, what it is really going to come down to is: what kind of lifesytle do you want?

One of my favorite quotes regarding this choice is from Mark Friedman of Loftworks.

&lt;blockquote&gt;People are constantly being asked to make the choice between living in a house that&#039;s twice the size with a lawn, or trading it for a more urban experience that costs more,&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> If you never spend any time in your yard, do you really need one?</p></blockquote>
<p>Nope, that&#8217;s why I am happy as hell that we don&#8217;t have one anymore. I hated doing yeard work and we were never out there.</p>
<blockquote><p> If you never spend any time in your yard, do you really need one?</p></blockquote>
<p>Nope, that&#8217;s why I am happy as hell that we don&#8217;t have one anymore. I hataed doing yeard work and we were never out there.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I can&#8217;t agree that mid-rise will complete with suburban living at this point, or in the near future.  You can still get a house in Natomas for around $225-$250 a square foot; midrises are still going to go for around $350-$400</p>
<p>Like Matt said, what it is really going to come down to is: what kind of lifesytle do you want?</p>
<p>One of my favorite quotes regarding this choice is from Mark Friedman of Loftworks.</p>
<blockquote><p>People are constantly being asked to make the choice between living in a house that&#8217;s twice the size with a lawn, or trading it for a more urban experience that costs more,&#8221; </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10112</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 18:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10112</guid>
		<description>I think people that live in urban areas do so because they like it.  Cost is a factor but I would imagine people either like urban living or they don&#039;t and they will deal with the cost to get what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people that live in urban areas do so because they like it.  Cost is a factor but I would imagine people either like urban living or they don&#8217;t and they will deal with the cost to get what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Sharp</title>
		<link>http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-10111</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Sharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 21:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uneasyrhetoric.net/2006/05/12/urban-competition/#comment-10111</guid>
		<description>After watching the movie &quot;End of Suburbia&quot; I&#039;m thinking that its just a matter of time when city living highrise or midrise will be more cost effective than suburbia or exurbia living.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After watching the movie &#8220;End of Suburbia&#8221; I&#8217;m thinking that its just a matter of time when city living highrise or midrise will be more cost effective than suburbia or exurbia living.</p>
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